Atkins Diet Misconceptions: Lack of long term studies?
This video is again a reactionary video to a prompt made to me in a vegan video. One of the reasons I enjoy the discussion with vegans is because it makes sure I eliminate the things I feel and replaces with things I know. The comment was:
Bowulf, I am afraid you and? I are going to disagree on this one. Can you offer any honest peer reviewed long term study which shows what you are claiming for the Atkins diet?
First a foreword there is a wealth of short term studies out there, whose results or findings could certainly be extrapolated to suggest long term results. I have mentioned these studies quite often in other videos, but I can understand how some people might be waiting for the other shoe to drop. In fact, one person said you wont see the true effects for five years, which seemed rather the red herring.
One of the problems with long term studies is two fold. For some long term studies, they often turn out to be epidemiological studies or studies of large groups of people. While there are some really good studies, there are some really horrible ones. They often breed bias in researchers on what to look for or variables to consider. The second problem is self-reporting. While it might be possible to control or be diligent in recording ones eating patterns for 2-3 or even 6 months, carrying it over 24 or 60 months seems impossible. You are thereby left with people self-reporting how they are eating.
Here are the studies:
Two years:
Carbohydrate-restricted diet for obesity and related diseases: an update (2008)
Weight Loss with a Low-Carbohydrate, Mediterranean, or Low-Fat Diet.
http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/full/359/3/229
Three years:
Long-term consumption of a carbohydrate-restricted diet does not induce deleterious metabolic effects.(3yrs)
Studied the low carb Optimal Diet and the risk factors for cardiovascular disease did not increase.
http://www.nrjournal.com/article/S0271-5317%2808%2900213-3/abstract
Long-Term Outcome of the Ketogenic Diet for Intractable Childhood Epilepsy (3 years)
http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/abstract/122/2/e330
Four years: (44 months)
Low-carbohydrate diet in type 2 diabetes” by Jörgen V Nielsen and Eva A Joensson.
http://www.nutritionandmetabolism.com/content/5/1/14
Twelve years:
Long-term use of the ketogenic diet in the treatment of epilepsy
http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayAbstract?fromPage=online&aid=548112
Twenty years:
N Engl J Med. 2006 Nov 9;355(19):1991-2002.
Low-carbohydrate-diet score and the risk of coronary heart disease in women.
Duration : 0:12:26
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Additional Data
@Goinglite One …
@Goinglite One more excellent link dealing with the puzzling lack of longevity for Vegans.
naturalhygienesociety (dot) org (forward slash) diet3 (dot) html#8
@tubeexcellence
” …
@tubeexcellence
“We share 99% of our genes with mice, and we even have the genes that could make a tail” – Dr Jane Rogers, Wellcome Trust Sanger Institute.
This genetic similarity draws my attention when I see mice getting sick and dying on Vegan diets. The observation by Dr Joel Wallach is a good one -
kingmaker (dot) net (forward slash) trustme (dot) html#3
@tubeexcellence …
@tubeexcellence news (dot) bbc (dot) co (dot) uk (forward slash) 2 (forward slash) hi (forward slash) science (forward slash)nature (forward slash) 2536501 (dot) stm
@tubeexcellence …
@tubeexcellence suite101 (dot) com (forward slash) content (forward slash) use (dash) of (dash) mice (dash) in (dash) biomedical (dash) research (dash) a24763
@tubeexcellence …
@tubeexcellence ornl (dot) gov (forward slash) info (forward slash) ornlreview (forward slash)rev25 (dash)1 (forward slash) mousemod (dot) html
@tubeexcellence If …
@tubeexcellence If 87% of 1000 vegans and 10% of 10000 of control group were deficient, I’d rather be in 10% group.
@tubeexcellence I …
@tubeexcellence I find it comical that Jinjee says “Statistically far more meat-eaters suffer from B12 deficiency than vegetarians, vegans, and raw-fooders.” That does not reach the point of the issue. Higher percentage of vegans suffer from B12 deficiency (87% are Type 1 or Type 2) than the standard eaters. Saying there are more individual meat eaters or the control group that are B12 deficient means nothing unless you know the size of the sample.
@tubeexcellence …
@tubeexcellence vetmed(Dot)ucdavis(Dot)edu/animal_alternatives(Forward Slash)whymice(dot)htm
@Goinglite
1) It …
@Goinglite
1) It looks like Jinjee addressed the interview very well here
thegardendiet (dot) com (forward slash) naz (dot) html
2) I just found out that Frederic Patenaude no longer believes his statement “I personally have found benefits in including some animal products in my diet”
@Goinglite
Nice …
@Goinglite
Nice try at a misdirect.
If you read it again I asked you three separate questions and did not provide proof, but instead asked you to provide the burden of proof since YOU offered the one 1912 rat studies as proof in “deals with some important issues concerning vegan-ism”.
@Goinglite @ …
@Goinglite @tubeexcellence I agree with the anti-mice bias in light of the number of genetically modified mice used recently in studies being fed diets that by no means look like a human diet. (processed food pellets) I think the damage or bias can go both ways — anti-meat or anti-veganism. Natural mice eating natural foods might point to a certain theory for humans, but it is far from definite.
The point is one should read studies with a discriminating eye and bs filter for bad science.
@Goinglite I agree …
@Goinglite I agree there is certainly enough evidence of vegan diets being difficult to do right without added supplementation or extremely careful menu planning. Most non-vegans don’t have to worry about supplementing their diets as they naturally can consume what their body needs.
- …
-naturalhygienesociety (Dot )org (Forward Slash )diet2 (Dot) html
@tubeexcellence – …
@tubeexcellence – naturalhygienesociety (dot) org (forward slash) diet-nazariah(Dot) html
@tubeexcellence
Vegans talk about longevity, but how many have actually lived past 100 years old ?????
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@tubeexcellence
If you are right, you need to tell all these scientists to stop using mice and rats for testing. If you are wrong, well ……………………………
@Goinglite
What …
@Goinglite
What evidence do you have that verifies rat studies are accurate means of determining human diet and replicate exact human physiology and biology functions?
Other than the observable differences there seems to be many biological differences between human & rats – pcrm.org/resch/anexp/rats.html
Are we suppose to assume because there are the terms like doctor & scientist the study must be true or do we just insert our authority confirmation bias & believe study is accurate?
@mza1979m Great I …
@mza1979m Great I can see this is a fruitful conversation where each responds to each other. Here is me responding to you…
Take care and eat well. I wish you luck, but as such, I am not one for idly talking to myself.
@bowulf To be …
@bowulf To be honest, I didn’t even read your reply. I was just expressing my opinion after seeing the first few minutes of the video. However, regarding the “cyclical” approach, I know it won’t work for everyone. Nothing works for everyone. However, I firmly believe any given approach has to be modified every so often in order to keep the body guessing, particularly during a temporary “fat burning” stage. This helps to maintain an anabolic state, as opposed to a catabolic state.
@mza1979m I have …
@mza1979m I have never said that it is necessary for all people to follow a reduced carb diet. I believe many people could succeed well on a low carb diet, and I do find it unnecessary for anyone to saturate their diet with simple refined carbs. I do also believe following a consistent approach works best as any “trick” or attempt to confuse the body will likely be short term approach and bring short term results. At least, most people I know who try cyclical living usually give up.
Just because low …
Just because low carb works for some, doesn’t mean it works for all. It works best for individuals who are carb sensitive. Otherwise, people who tolerate carbs well and who are able to easily digest it are encouraged to make it approx. 50% of their calorie intake. It all depends on who you are and how your body’s able to tolerate certain foods. I lose 2 lbs of body fat per week while maintaining my carb/protein/fat ratio at 50/30/20. Every few days I cut down on carbs a lot to confuse my body.
I agree – dropping …
I agree – dropping all animal products has some severe consequences, and trying to do it without supplements is definitely detrimental to one’s health.
Dr Stanley S. Bass …
Dr Stanley S. Bass “In Search of the Ultimate Vegetarian Diet” does a great job in dealing with the problems with veganism. You can find his website through a search engine.
drbass (dot) com ( …
drbass (dot) com (forward slash) veganrats (dot) html
drbass (dot) com (forward slash) mice (dot) html
Deals with some important issues concerning vegan-ism.
What people seem to …
What people seem to ignore is that when people changed to an Atkins style of life they didn’t have healthy eating habbits in the first place. I can tell that all, absolutely 100% of people which I know who was loosing weight on Atkins and got lurred by this “healthy eating habits talk” returned to their old junky food habits and morbid obesity, Io-Io dietings and other problems…I haven’t given up on Atkins and I’m fine, It’s been a five years journey now.
Yeah if you ever …
Yeah if you ever want to see just how peaceful and cordial some vegans are to meat eaters, just search “bizarro vegan video” here on youtube. Talk about being addicted to their food and lifestyle.